Tech Meets Talk: A Consultative Approach to Digital Adoption | Matthew Belli, Nestlé

Ken Babcock [00:00:41]:

Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of the Change Enablers podcast. I am super pumped today to have Matt Belli, who's the global IT product owner for digital adoption at Nestle. Matt's calling in from Milan, Italy, where actually the previous two weeks he spent in Paris at the Olympics. Very jealous. Would love to do an entire podcast just based on that. Were going to talk more about digital adoption. Matt leads a lot of the efforts at Nestle around Walkme, enabling over 200 applications within Nestle's expansive global organization. We'll let him talk a little bit more about that, but there's some really exciting stuff that we're going to dig into around process adoption data.

Ken Babcock [00:01:23]:

Being this internal salesperson and stakeholder for teams to maximize their output and efficiency, there's a lot of really cool stuff. I got introduced to matt a while back, learned a lot from him, and I'm excited for the audience to learn a lot from him as well. So, Matt, thanks for. For joining the podcast.

Matthew Belli [00:01:40]:

Yeah, thanks, Ken. Happy to be here.

Ken Babcock [00:01:42]:

So why don't we start with just talking a little bit about your career trajectory, how you ended up at Nestle, and sort of your job responsibilities today.

Matthew Belli [00:01:51]:

Sure. Yeah. Honestly, it started with a bit of luck. Like, as you said, it's a big change from when I was living back in the Bay Area, back in California. So basically how I got here was July of 2020, honestly, which is kind of a rough period. We're in the middle of COVID and at that point was when a recruiter from Nestle reached out, and it was basically just, well, we had this awesome opportunity, if you are willing to relocate to Milan, and I'm like, wait a second, we're talking middle of COVID switching continents, going to Milan, which is kind of one of the worst places to be at the time. And I decided, you know, long story short, I decided, let's go for it. It took me another, like six months or so to get over there with all the visa paperwork and things like that.

Matthew Belli [00:02:34]:

But things are going really well. Things are great with Nestle. I really see the potential for what we've done with the program to give a little background. Before I joined, they were only live on one application. And part of the reason they were trying to expand the team with my background from, with Walkme was that essentially they're in the process of negotiating the enterprise license. So basically to put walk me on all applications. So that was sort of the impetus to bring me on, and that's sort of how I started.

Ken Babcock [00:03:05]:

So that's fascinating. So you were, you were at Walkme at the time, correct?

Matthew Belli [00:03:09]:

Yeah, honestly, I wasn't even trying to leave. I wasn't even looking. It was a recruiter who reached out on LinkedIn. You know, especially at that time period. I, you know, I was figuring, I can't move. I can't switch jobs like Covid. Everything is changing. Yeah, it's a big surprise, honestly.

Ken Babcock [00:03:24]:

So you went from Walkme to Nestle to help Nestle with their walkme instance, which was only live on one application. Eventually it would be live on 200 applications. Thats super fascinating. So you kind of saw it go from one to 200. Talk to me a little bit about Nestle internally. Assume that the audience doesnt know anything about Nestle, even though im sure we all know about chocolate chips and different products and maybe hot chocolate and things like that. But talk to me a little bit about Nestle as an organization. Why digital adoption was something that was top of mind for them and kind of the status of where that sits today and the applications that you enable.

Ken Babcock [00:04:03]:

I know you can't mention all of them, but give some background on Nestle.

Matthew Belli [00:04:06]:

So this is an interesting question, because, to be honest, I don't think they were even really looking for digital adoption. To be honest, most people, and a large part of what I do is telling people about what is digital adoption, and let me back up a little bit. And so, like, when I was at Walkme, I held a few different positions over the years where I was, you know, an engineer, I was a customer success manager. I was enablement manager. So I could basically build content. I could tell a value story and I could enable teams to build content. So I was like, okay, I got everything checked. This is all I need that Nestle could imagine wanting.

Matthew Belli [00:04:40]:

And then I get there and there's a couple teams bought into the idea of digital adoption. Like, we started on successfactor, so that was the first app. So the ITHR team understood the value that was there. That was it. That was a big shock for me. If you think about those three roles that I had previously, those are all post sales roles people have already bought in and are literally paying me to come up with strategies to deliver value. This is a whole new beast where, especially from the size perspective, as you mentioned, I'm familiar with a small, mid sized company walking with about 1000 people at the time. And here's nestle with 300,000 people trying to figure out how a company like that works.

Matthew Belli [00:05:24]:

And I'm still, I mean, I've been here three and a half ish years and I'm still very much a novice and understanding the inner workings of something so large. And so what I thought was going to be like, oh, it's going to be easy to come in and build like a center of excellence or something like that was, it actually became more of me having to create a marketing strategy. How do you get people to actually even know we exist, that our application has use cases that we can deliver value on? And so I kind of had to pivot from thinking of just digital adoption and what walk me content stuff to how do we reach people? And then who are these people that we need to reach out to? Like, you know, who are the stakeholders that own these applications that are important to Nestle? And going back to where we started, like how does Nestle work? Like how and when? A little surprise is that you know it, the whole purpose of it at Nestle is to literally support the business. Obviously, that should make sense. However, that also means we're kind of in a bubble of how the actual business side of things is run. Even just figuring out who to talk to is very difficult because we don't necessarily know the right people or know the end users really of these applications because they're in the business.

Ken Babcock [00:06:37]:

That's super fascinating. I mean, when we were prepping for the episode, you talked about being this internal salesperson, which is sort of funny to go from the company that builds the product to then within a company enabling that product but still selling it. Like, youre still very much an evangelist of walk me, talk to me a little bit about the marketing strategy. You mentioned that a few times when we were prepping the marketing strategy of getting people bought in, what were sort of the key value propositions that you were selling. And then you talked about that first team, that recruiting HR team that was really bought in. What did you see as the difference between teams that were bought in and teams that weren't? So there's kind of two questions in there, your value propositions. And then, like, how did it land with different teams?

Matthew Belli [00:07:23]:

To be honest, it was really rough at first. We didn't really have a pitch. Realistically. You know, the first question we often guess, we're like, what's walked me? What is digital adoption? And, you know, the first you see, oh, it's like, you know, we create blue navigation to help you through a process. And like, oh, we don't want balloons. And it's like, well, if you immediately get that shut down, it's like, really hard to reengage and reopen that door. So we had to obviously struggle and pivot and reevaluate how we would first introduce ourselves. And what we've slowly developed is more along the lines of the therapy strategy.

Matthew Belli [00:07:57]:

It's like, okay, let's start by you telling us a little bit about your team. What is your team trying to accomplish? What sort of applications does your team use to accomplish those goals? Okay, so within those applications, what are the critical processes that people are using every day to really drive that value home? Okay, so if we were to ask one of those people using the application for those processes, what would they say is the worst part of their day? Or how could we improve or make it easier for them to complete the things that they're doing on a day to day basis? And how we pivoted was instead of having to say what we do with, walk me what we do with digital adoption, we start with saying, okay, let's find some pain points that we can relate to and then tell a story of how our application could be used or applied with whatever features to actually align with that goal. So it was more just being a good listener instead of trying to describe, oh, what walkme is, it's like, no, no, no. You tell me your day to day, and then we figure out if even we're a good solution for you to be honest. Like, we don't want to be forcing this. Like, I'm not a salesperson in the sense that there's no commission here. I wish, but my whole goal is that you see the value enough that you want to work with me. And so it's a different perspective.

Ken Babcock [00:09:07]:

I think you also touch upon something that can be challenging with digital adoption. Right? Particularly if organizations kind of look at the assets of their team is as people process technology. A lot of teams just optimize for people and technology to solve their problems. This is that digital adoption, process adoption is really the problem that's often hiding in plain sight. And so it takes kind of that line of questioning that you shared to get to a place where they're like, oh, yeah, that is actually a problem. At least that's what we've seen on the tango side. I don't know if that rings true for you.

Matthew Belli [00:09:44]:

Yeah. And we kind of try to strike the balance between we want to, we have this like little quote that walk me makes technology user friendly and users text happy. And just because we can describe that as like, yes, we want all people to be able to be trained on how to use technology. However, we also want to be continually improving technology to be more user friendly. That usually gets people be like, aha. So it's not just one way. We don't need to just train people on how to use an application, but by identifying how. I mean, granted, like, there's so many different types of people coming from different backgrounds, different skill sets.

Matthew Belli [00:10:23]:

And for you to think that just one standard training module will be able to be perfect for every one of those people is hard to imagine. I mean, again, it depends on your scope or how many continents, countries, languages your content might be needed to be translated to. So it's just nested. Blew me out of the water with trying to figure out how to manage it all.

Ken Babcock [00:10:43]:

Yeah.

Matthew Belli [00:10:44]:

Im not sure if that quite answered your question though, but no.

Ken Babcock [00:10:48]:

And I think what you hit on, which is really important, is that one size fits all isnt always the best approach. It does need to be customized at the team level. And business process is often unique within companies, across teams, between companies. But I do want to shift directions just a little bit. You know, you talked sort of about selling these teams. Were there common hesitations? You know, maybe you'd get kind of to the, the end of the road where, you know, you felt like you had identified a problem with a team that you could help with, specifically walkme could help with. Were there any hurdles that you had to jump over? I mean, you, you said sometimes this was rough. What made it rough? Sometimes what were those challenges that you faced?

Matthew Belli [00:11:35]:

And this sort of goes along with my evolution of my role early on, I started as the person who actually built the content. So I talked to you, learn about your problems, built the content with you, and sort of roll it out slowly like that. However, that doesn't scale. Like, you can't have just one person at a company like Nestle and expect that to last very long or to not pull your hair out. And so we eventually brought on some consultants to help with that. However, consultants cost more money. It's one thing when it's my salary, nothing changes. No matter how hard I work.

Matthew Belli [00:12:10]:

I can build all the content in the world, but I don't cost more money. However, when you bring in consultants to help scale to the levels that are necessary at a large company is budget. When you're trying to ask for budget, that's when they're asking, well, why? What kind of value are you going to deliver? Again, again, people don't know all that you can achieve with digital adoption. They're thinking like, okay, you can create a tour. So first time user, they get to the home page. These buttons do this. Done. And the issues with tours is like, okay, great, day one.

Matthew Belli [00:12:46]:

And depending on the churn of a specific team, it can be reused every now and then. But the long term value of something that's just a tour isn't there. So they're like, oh, well, you want us to pay all this money for this? This is just a nice to have. This is not a real painkiller that's going to move the needle for us. And so early on, we had to basically do a lot of the project development and the funding for these things ourselves because we needed case studies, we needed internal proof that we were able to deliver value for these organizations. We can talk about helping with onboarding or support ticket reduction or process optimization. That's all we want. But until we give them examples of where we've helped internally do this, ideally on an application similar to their own, and have shown them the value that came three, six months after deployment, it was really hard to get anyone to be wanting to talk to us, to be honest.

Matthew Belli [00:13:48]:

I'm happy to say that our program is about four and a half, five ish years old from the very, very first thing I joined three and half years ago. I'm happy to say, like the marketing side of things, the selling of the value of what we do has completely diminished. Most of the people that come to us, it's all word of mouth. They're like, hey, we saw you on this app, we talked to this guy, we had coffee, and we heard a problem being solved with your product. Let's set up a call and talk about how we can work together. And it's been a complete shift, which I think a lot of it is just most people aren't convinced the first time they see something, maybe not even the second time. It takes being told something by one person, hearing it from another, seeing a use case value story somewhere else for them to be like, you know what? Let me give these guys a chance to see what they can do to help us achieve whatever we're trying to achieve. And that's been really cool to see happen.

Ken Babcock [00:14:39]:

Yeah, no, that's great. And the case studies make a ton of sense. You touched a little bit upon the metrics that you show after that three to six month period. Can you talk a little bit about metrics data, the role that that plays in the selling process, but also how you further justify and reinforce this product over time. Once the teams already on it, what are you showing them to say? Hey, heres the value that youre capturing by using walkme.

Matthew Belli [00:15:08]:

How it started was we analyzed the last, I dont know, six months worth of projects and we collected data on them and I came up with this idea of creating a value slide. And these value slides are very simple, very straightforward. It's just like a summary of the project which starts with, what is the situation? Why did you talk to them in the first place? Were they buying or migrating to a new app or dealing with a lot of support tickets? Whatever that situation is, then the objective or what they're trying to achieve. So like, are they trying to reduce support tickets or improve optimization or make this r1 easy step to miss in a process very obvious. It can be as very direct or very, just broad, depending, and then realistically the value. And we break value into a couple different ways and it really depends on the use cases. This is something that came after this. So after we created these value slides, we sort of bucketed them into specific use case packages, shall we say? So like support ticket reduction, or process efficiency or license optimization or whatever it happened to be.

Matthew Belli [00:16:06]:

And we created these packages so that it would be easier to have individual stakeholders align with one. Because once you say the title of these packages, usually they're like, ah, that one matters to me. I really like that topic. And for each of those packages, we have it aligned with like, okay, so if you have support ticket reduction, normally your objective is to reduce support tickets. Your metric is tracking support tickets. And we need to know that you guys are doing this currently. And that helps us really realize that, like, oh, if you want to reduce support tickets, but you're nothing. Tracking support tickets, well, this is useless.

Matthew Belli [00:16:43]:

This isn't what we're trying to do anymore, which also had happened to us previously, that they wanted to make things easier but not realize they don't have the metrics to even track. Anyways, we have basically six use case buckets that all have a breakdown between an objective, a KPI, and the metrics that we're trying to measure. And then we took all those value slides and stuck them into Rolodex of demo slideshow. Now we can get on a call with anyone, talk to them about what kind of use cases are important to you, and then be like, ah, well, check out all these examples of someone who said the same thing. And this is the sort of content we developed for them and the sort of the value that they saw from what we had. And they're like, aha. And then, of course, some of them are still being like, we need a more specific example. More specific example.

Matthew Belli [00:17:32]:

But they're no longer as resistant because they see the proof. They see the other teams. They could even go talk to those teams. Everyone that we work with is internal, so it's not like we're making people up.

Ken Babcock [00:17:43]:

Yeah, so you said those three buckets. And I just want to reiterate that for the audience, you know, license optimization, process efficiency and support ticket reduction. To me, support ticket reduction feels pretty clear. Right? Baseline outcome, what does that look like? What are the metrics for process efficiency and license optimization? How do you help teams measure that? Walk me was successful in those use.

Matthew Belli [00:18:08]:

Cases, and honestly, license optimization, I threw that one out there. But that's not one of our six buckets. It's something we're actively trying to pursue because this is something that walk me has told us that they're able to really support. And we've been running into trouble because license optimization also needs to assume that you have the power to renegotiate contracts based on certain licenses. And at the complexity level that Nestle has, when you have dozens or hundreds of roles for complex applications, to figure out which roles can be cut and by who, and then, anyway, so I don't want to dive too far into that one because.

Ken Babcock [00:18:42]:

Yeah, so that one would almost be, like it, spend. But that's a new area. Okay.

Matthew Belli [00:18:47]:

I would almost say, hold off on trying to dive into that, unless, you know, you're talking about a very simple app with a very simple amount of users and go from there. Sorry, what was the other one that you mentioned?

Ken Babcock [00:18:57]:

Process efficiency.

Matthew Belli [00:18:58]:

You mentioned process efficiency. So this idea is that we want to track, and again, it's up to them, because if they're tracking essentially how fast processes are being done, are people being slowed down by tricky fields or, I don't know, whatever. Maybe they don't have the information, they don't have links to the training materials. We essentially are able to create process funnels, basically measuring how long it takes them to get from a to b to c, essentially. And we are just giving them that data so that if they feel like people are reporting struggling on a given process, let's start tracking it. Let's create the baseline. And then we can see if by adding additional content, whether it's balloons or tooltips or just whatever piece of content, sometimes it's just making a field required when it didn't used to be required. And that used to cause a lot of, you know, rework down the road.

Matthew Belli [00:19:51]:

Like a big metric with certain teams is like first time write, and there's a lot of apps that don't require certain things to be done a certain way. So ensuring that first time, right percentage is really high is, is their metric. And so, granted, that's first time write is their metric, but we link it to the process efficiently. Efficiency bucket, shall we say?

Ken Babcock [00:20:09]:

Yeah, no, that's fascinating. I like that first time write FTR. I feel like that has a good ring to it. You talked a little bit about how do you sell these use cases internally and how you drive impact for these teams on top of other applications, the success factors example, and I'm sure there's, well, there's hundreds more maybe actually going back. Since Walkme itself is its own application, how are you also justifying the spend on Walkme? Right. Because every time you add a new team with a new application, new external consultants, like you mentioned, what metrics are you looking at to say, hey, this digital adoption solution is actually driving the impact that we had hoped it did?

Matthew Belli [00:20:48]:

This is a really good question and tough, because as you can imagine, if you're working with a group on a specific application, they might have quite a few different use cases. All those use cases is valued in a way that's relevant for them. However, the interoperability between all of these applications, all of these use cases, all of these value stories doesn't exist, to be honest. And so how do we sort of justify the cost overall to the business, which, of course, there's a cost to having the teams application and all the consultants to support it. And so we've come up with a secondary value measurement. So we have, we think of this more like the micro level, the use case specific to the team, but then we also have the macro level. How do we accumulate all the data across all the applications, all the users, all the interactions, and translate that into a value that, you know, a senior stakeholder can be like, okay, let's sign off on more budget sort of a thing. And that was tricky.

Matthew Belli [00:21:48]:

Because it is 100% based on assumptions that have been verified by different levels. However, at the end of the day, it's an assumption because it's essentially saying that, and it's based on interactions. And so again, like, it's basically like an interaction on a smart tip means something. It means some amount of time savings, and then you take that amount of time savings, how many interactions, multiply it by the average salary of an employee, and you get a number. And as anyone with any sort of background in data or not even could tell you, that not every piece of content is equal, not every use case is equal. How do you create an average amount of time saved for, like, a process that could be two steps or processes, 50 steps, or if the process is helping train someone, or if the process is just helping correct a field? Like, we know this is an impossible task to measure. However, given what we have, that's what we rely on. We have a macro level number that is an aggregate of how many interactions we have with the multiplier for the content plus the salary, then that is tied in with the little individual use cases that are actually the real value.

Matthew Belli [00:23:00]:

Hey, look at these three really amazing stories that are some of our hugest successes this year. However, to get an idea of the overall program, the value that we've delivered, we're estimating. We're taking a guess that given some assumptions, this is a number of hours saved in the year.

Ken Babcock [00:23:18]:

Yeah. And do you have any numbers you can share that you're proud of?

Matthew Belli [00:23:23]:

Oh, dear. I think last quarter we returned to the business is the language. We say it was like around 500,000 hours, which when you multiply that out, it's pretty large. But, yeah, that's just our quarterly number. And honestly, we're continually trying to revamp it, because when you have multipliers as large as Nestle has, these numbers quickly become absurd. Like, people just don't believe you. If you say that you're saving this much time, and then you also get people pointing out that if you save someone 10 seconds, well, what did you actually save them? Is that 10 seconds actually productive time, or did they do something else? And so you don't have any data to say that, like, oh, because we saved that 500,000 hours last quarter, that they actually did more. So it's tricky sometimes with these, with these numbers, because, yes, our stakeholders require us to be giving these numbers, but it's also like sometimes when they sound so absurd, I'm not necessarily proud of them.

Matthew Belli [00:24:23]:

I think the bigger pride is held we had an example of helping sustain an automation level. Basically we have this process that should be automated. The automation is built in. However, if you have this single field and if the field isn't perfect syntax, the automation breaks. That field is related to basically I'm just going to be very brought a form and that form is part of $3 billion worth of stuff happening. That little field in like are we responsible for all of it? No, of course not. However, the fact that we can be contributing to an automation that is affecting an insanely large number is more where we get the internal value. So it's much easier to tell a story like that and be like, wow, we really accomplish something to help move the needle for the business versus, oh, we return productive hours back to the business that we can't verify where they.

Ken Babcock [00:25:22]:

Went, but at the same time giving back more hours, I mean, that's the core of what you're trying to do is make teams more productive, give them more time. Now what they use that time for, that would be an absurd mandate for you to also figure out, hey, we're going to save you time and then let's make sure all that time is redirected in the right place. That's largely down to the team. So I think you're measuring the right things. I think you can give yourself a little bit more credit. Part of the cost side of this, theres always this RoI that every piece of software is juggling. Hey, were giving back this many hours, but there is a cost in terms of people which we talked a little bit about. Theres a cost in terms of scaling an application which we talked about a little bit.

Ken Babcock [00:26:06]:

One thing we havent touched on yet is also what is the cost to teams, both your team and the internal team that youre selling to around implementation and ongoing support? Is that something that you're focused on and maybe help us understand how long does an implementation take? How much support do you usually have to provide to teams to make sure that walkme is successful?

Matthew Belli [00:26:31]:

We do a lot. So the implementation itself is usually pretty quick. We don't have many long, long term projects. Often people just come to us with a couple small use cases and we build for that.

Ken Babcock [00:26:43]:

What is pretty quick look like in terms of time?

Matthew Belli [00:26:45]:

I would say like two to four weeks, honestly, because we have consultants that sort of ramp up, ramp down based on our need. Like usually we have an engineer ready anytime they want to go and usually we're just waiting on them to create either the process documentation or to have identified their specific use cases or they're on holiday because we're in Europe and they just disappear for months at a time. And we need to find a UAT group to do the testing. And then we have to make sure the content doesn't need to be translated in 26 languages. And if I does, then we need to find people in every market to verify those languages after we have baseline machine translation done. So again, it can be very quick, but once you start doing the multi language and the localization pieces, it can really expand. So it sort of depends. So what we do now is have groups pay for the consultants upfront.

Matthew Belli [00:27:37]:

So the initial phase one build is what they are scoped for, what they provide funding for. That's great. The agreement with that is that the assumption is all content needs to be updated and maintained and checked. What we do internally is we have two all content audits per year, one in the summer, one in the winter. Basically we fund my personal team. We basically have our consultants go through every piece of content and validate from an analytic standpoint, from a functional standpoint that it is looking good. Or if it's not, they give a recommendation of we need tiny little fixes and they just handle that. Oh, we have major issues with content not being used at all.

Matthew Belli [00:28:19]:

Went from 100 to zero that might have changed, or maybe that was decommissioned, who knows? At that point is when we need to re engage with the stakeholder to really see and dive in. With being live on so many applications, it's very hard to maintain ongoing conversations with these people. So oftentimes people left the team and you have to go find the person that took over for them. It's usually not too hard, but can be a little tricky. So what has sort of evolved in its own way from this is that my role is sort of selling the value to new groups. Then when we get confirmation, they work directly with the consultants and then the groups that want to sort of take it the next step and sort of be like, hey, we need more ongoing activity. And a few of these groups have actually created their own center of excellence internally. And some of them, they work with the original consultants that we still work with.

Matthew Belli [00:29:15]:

Some of them actually had their own consultants brought in. So they managed their own budget for consultants managing the content that is relevant for them. And so beyond just selling, shall I say, to new people, it's also maintaining the governance of how do we have walkme across all these applications and it looks the same, does the same, and it's not ruining an experience for someone. So that's kind of the tricky thing we need to maintain and honestly, why we fund these audits, because if people have a bad experience one time, they're done. They don't need someone to be reaching out, oh, no, no, we're better now. We're better now. Come back, come back. That's not going to work.

Matthew Belli [00:29:55]:

So it's a lot, but overall we see the value of continuing and expanding. And so there's a honestly, not really even a question about is it a yes or no? With digital adoption, it's a let's go and find more use cases sort of scenario.

Ken Babcock [00:30:09]:

That's a great position to be in. You've talked a little bit about the external consultants and obviously that gives you some flexibility, depending on new use cases you're supporting, depending on the scope of those use cases to ramp people up and down just better meets the needs of the business. Right. I totally get that. Did you have a point where you were deciding between, hey, do we do this external consultant thing, or do we just build out a team internally and maybe talk the audience through kind of how you thought about that decision?

Matthew Belli [00:30:41]:

So I was against the whole idea. Honestly, at first I'm like, no, no, no. Why would you pay some external consultant? They're only in it for the paycheck at the end of the month. Like, you know, we want a team internal who understands, you know, the nesty processes, they understand the nesty politics. Why would we have consultants come in that don't have that background? And so honestly, I was against it to begin with. And my manager at the time, she was like, trust me, you'll get to a point where it is not feasible to literally do all of the work yourself, nor to try and have one, two people kind of join the team because there will be a point in time where you need to be focusing on the strategy, the upper level conversations. You do not want to be involved in implementations, you do not want to be called up on support tickets. You want to be able to delegate to external people to support you in these things when your time is better spent, spent elsewhere.

Matthew Belli [00:31:36]:

And I can't thank her enough for making that decision back then because at the time it didn't really matter. But today, you know, three years later, like, we would never be able to keep up with the content that we're having because like right now, like this week, we have 24, I think last time accounted projects being worked on. Like, I don't even know.

Ken Babcock [00:31:53]:

And like, when you have 24 projects right now concurrent.

Matthew Belli [00:31:55]:

Yeah.

Ken Babcock [00:31:56]:

And so how many consultants does that take to support.

Matthew Belli [00:32:00]:

So we ramp. So just the ones I work directly with, I think we have around seven or eight. So they come in and come out based on the projects. There's two other consultant teams for two other satellite offices or satellite coes. I think one has around six, the other has two or three.

Ken Babcock [00:32:18]:

Wow. And that's all focused on enabling walkme within Nestle.

Matthew Belli [00:32:23]:

Yeah, wow. Honestly, which is kind of crazy to think about like, the amount of use cases and like, we are just scratching the surface. Like it's nuts. Like, of course we're on, like, a lot of the bigger apps, but when you start thinking of, like, we have success factors, you know, our app for pretty much all the HR activities, and that's touching 300,000 people and how many languages, how many markets, how many products are within that serviceNow, for instance? I think we have 20 products within ServiceNow alone. So each of those has their own product owners and team supporting them and new content being rolled out and knowledge manager trying to handle how he's going to deal with the rollout of AI and the new tools that are being provided. So, like, it is an insane amount of stuff that's continually happening. And, like, you know, I'm sure you're aware of how SAP just bought Walkme, but walk me is putting in a lot more effort to sort of roll out content on these applications that used to be completely a no go zone sort of thing. And Nestle is an SAP powerhouse.

Matthew Belli [00:33:23]:

Like, for operations, for everything. On the business side, it's SAP. And most of these applications were run on these legacy systems that we couldn't touch. And now walk me decided that maybe it's a good idea to work on those systems. And so the last few weeks, honestly, it's just sort of exploded with the amount of interest to try and work on these things. So it's never ending the amount of work that comes through. And again, once you've established yourself that you can validate the reason for people wanting to work with you, now, it's just validating that they're ready to go because most people get excited, but they're not necessarily able to define what they want yet.

Ken Babcock [00:33:56]:

Yeah, fascinating. And you guys support right now, 200 plus applications on Walkme. Is that accurate?

Matthew Belli [00:34:04]:

So I'll give you the little dirty secret to that number. So it's 64 if it's applications with visible content. But that's also a bit of a lie because, for instance, within ServiceNow, there's, let's say 20 applications, but we count that as one. There's many applications that have multiple teams inside that. We have to support that, all different stakeholders, but from an application standpoint, we count that as one. We have two, last I checked was like 232 applications that specifically use Walkme for data collection. So this was a really interesting use case because we're required to report on usage and adoption numbers for certain applications. And it was a tedious process for application owners to first learn how to use tools that are available to track usage and adoption, then to add those into a specific form and basically do this monthly process.

Matthew Belli [00:34:53]:

We automated it and so basically we created an automation tool for them using walk me data and it's saving them time. So we're seeing that as support and it's also identifying applications and use cases because now that walk me is there, we can start doing some process analysis and be like, hey, we have a ton of users doing this. Let's dive deeper. So true and a little stretch of truth.

Ken Babcock [00:35:16]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand where you're coming from, which is kind of like, let's get people started on whatever version of Walkme is going to be best suited for their use case, and then eventually over time, there's more use cases on those tools. I get that. What would be, let's just say in a hypothetical world, if you're enabling every application instance within Nestle, what does the scale of that look like? I mean, is it like 500 apps, 600 apps? I mean, is it less, is it more?

Matthew Belli [00:35:45]:

So, I mean, it's so Walkme has this feature called Discovery. I don't know if you've heard of it, but basically they tap in and they basically scan our websites for applications and I don't know what's the difference between an application and just a website. So for instance, Google Translate, it's its own application. However, it's this. And the thing is that we are now building on non managed apps. What I mean by non managed is Google Translate is not an approved internal Nest translation app. So we build walkme content on it to redirect people to the approved application. Similarly, that's how we're handling a lot of these AI tools that pop up as we try to add in our own controls.

Matthew Belli [00:36:25]:

This tool, it's not really separating between managed apps or anything like that, but in the ballpark of 100,000 apps are potentially being within scope if someone asks for it. Granted, far less are actually in reality in scope, but sort of depends because recently we've really been working closely with the security compliance team and when they realize that we can now control individuals experiences on other applications. They're basically just go out there, find applications and send them our way.

Ken Babcock [00:36:58]:

Nice. Well it sounds like, Matt, you've got no shortage of work to be done, so I don't want to take up too much more of your time, but I really appreciate you spending time with us today. Weve learned a ton. I think its just fascinating to look under the hood within an organization like Nestle and understand how theyre thinking about digital adoption, how theyre thinking about their applications, how they maximize their team, how they value different applications. I mean theres a lot here for our audience to take away so I want to thank you for that. As a closing question, we like to ask, is there maybe a hot take or a misconception that you have or maybe that most people have that you want to call B's on about digital adoption? Maybe we touched on it already, but what's your hot take on the digital adoption space and we'll cap it off there?

Matthew Belli [00:37:53]:

Yeah, no, this is a funny one because obviously I've been talking to people who haven't worked with digital adoption before and sometimes this isn't a unique thing to one individual. I've heard it before is that like, oh, so digital adoption just exists because of bad UI or bad user interface and poor training. And so if we just improve the user experience on the website and improve the training, then digital adoption isn't necessary. And I just stop there and think that you're not quite getting it. You're assuming that every individual is the same, every process never changes and you're not really seeing the full long term evolution of applications or processes and you're living in more of the stagnant idea of reality. And I mean change is increasing in speed, it's not slowing down. There's nothing we're going to be able to do to take a pause on what's coming our way. If people are hesitating on digital adoption, they're just losing time on implementing something that's going to make them more efficient in the future.

Matthew Belli [00:38:56]:

So I think thats the only thing I can think of at the moment. But I hope that works.

Ken Babcock [00:39:00]:

Yeah, no, I buy that completely. I do think there are a lot of very well intentioned product teams out there that are like, oh, people arent using this thing, lets just like, and Im going to diminish this job and responsibility, which I dont intend to do, but lets just move some buttons around and work on some new flows and its like, well at the end of the day, big tech companies take this on all the time. Think about when Google changes the layout of Gmail. I mean, it is a months long process to get people to opt in to get them up to speed. And so assuming you can go ahead and just change the UI, ux and flip a switch and then everything's fixed, that's not reality either. So I totally buy that. And good to hear you say that.

Matthew Belli [00:39:45]:

I got one more quote, actually, just one thing that popped up recently from our senior executives is that for every dollar spent on software, we spend $7 on change management. And so that was something, you know, coming from our top, top bosses.

Ken Babcock [00:40:00]:

Wow.

Matthew Belli [00:40:00]:

Which is a crazy thing to consider. So it's real.

Ken Babcock [00:40:04]:

$1. Gosh, etch this in stone. $1 spent on software, seven for $7 spent on change management and enablement. That is. Those are real numbers. Matt, that's, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for joining us on the pod.

Matthew Belli [00:40:20]:

Yeah, thanks, Ken.

Ken Babcock [00:40:21]:

There's going to be a lot here for the audience and we'll keep you around. Maybe we'll bring you back for like another episode of the surface.

Matthew Belli [00:40:28]:

So.

Ken Babcock [00:40:28]:

Sure. Yeah, totally. Thanks, man. And enjoy Italy in the summer.

Matthew Belli [00:40:34]:

Thanks so much. Talk to you soon.