Introducing Tango Nuggets; Atlassian State of Teams; Whatfix Round | State of Change Enablement

Rocco Seyboth [00:00:00]:

Ken, have you ever watched a detective show where all the detectives are in the squad room and they're looking at the white chalkboard and they've got all the suspects and the locations and there's different dots with yarn? That's literally what your flow builder looks like. In other dapps with nuggets, we wanted you to be able to have almost anybody in your organization create tool tips with just a few clicks. Welcome to Change Enablers, a podcast by Tango. Sit back, relax, and listen to some of the brightest minds in operations and enablement.

Ken Babcock [00:00:49]:

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the fourth edition of the State of Change Enablement. Rocco, we're back, man. We're back. We said three was going to be the charm. I think it was, but now we're back for four. And so I'm pretty excited about the stuff we have to talk about today. Really timely.

Rocco Seyboth [00:01:05]:

I'm pumped to be here. Yeah, it's going to be fun. We have a couple big ones.

Ken Babcock [00:01:09]:

Good to have you back. We're taping this in October. Lots of really cool stuff coming out. It's conference season for a lot of you out there, so there's some good thought leadership coming out from a lot of different companies. Lots of big announcements coming out. We're going to talk through a few of those. And I figured it would be apt for us to kick off our first section, which for the recurring listeners here, you know, is top news as the state of change enablement. We also, you know, have an affinity for other states that are out there.

And the Atlassian State of teams for 2024 just came out and it was a really interesting read. I know Rocco's got a lot of thoughts on this. A few things that stood out to me. When you read the State of Teams, it's sort of a very humbling read where you've got a lot of teams that are working on duplicative work. You've got a lot of teams that are sort of partaking in what my favorite term from the article was productivity theater, where maybe you're not actually doing the work that your business needs, but you're doing something. You're sending the update out, you're writing the email, you're doing work about work. Um, and surprise, surprise, people are having too many meetings. So I wouldn't say there was anything revolutionary in the State of Teams, but it was a very grounding article in the reality that, like, this is where enterprises are, have been, still are.

Rocco, I'm curious to hear your takeaways. Did you. Did you have a Similar reaction.

I found it very validating, actually. It seems to prove or shine a light on some things that I think. I personally feel often that I know that my friends and people I talk to are feeling, which is that we've been doing remote work for a long time now. Some of us are even going back to the office. And yet things don't feel. It doesn't feel like we figured it out. Right. We still have too many meetings.

We still. 55% of people surveyed said it was hard to track down information to do their job and that I found the way it was worded very interesting. That was worded as, despite knowing a lot of people at their job. I find that interesting that the key to tracking down information to do your job is how many people you know at your job. That's actually maybe an indicator. But as much as it. It's a little sad, the truth is it's. It's validating.

And I find the. The productivity theater one very interesting. It's one of the stats that was alarming was 65% of knowledge workers say it's more important to quickly respond to messages than it is to make progress on top priorities. That feels like it's a cousin to the quiet quitting trend that we've heard about and that you and I actually think of have talked about.

Yeah.

So the people that are really trying to impress and trying to do a great job might be optimizing for the wrong thing. They might be optimizing for making it look like they're doing a great job than actually doing the work. And then you have a whole other set of people that are. That are quiet quitting, that are just trying to stay in the shadows. So that's. That's tough. What jumped. What jumped out for you, Ken?

Yeah, you know, I. This sort of. And not to throw anyone under the bus during my time at Uber, but I think I've talked about it a little bit. I joined when Uber globally was 800 people. By the time I left, it was 25,000. And by the time that I left and that was only four years later, there was a lot of this productivity theater going on. And there was just like, there was so much work about work. And I know that that's probably like the benefit that a large company gets is like you're able to.

You're able to take on all these, you know, different methods of communication. You're able to bring people together in certain ways. But a lot of times, like, to me, these types of stats are indicative of maybe Bloat within a company. Yeah, you know, if there's, there's a lot of people, there's a lot of messages, if there's a lot of people. The other stat that stood out to me was like 64% of people agree that their team is constantly being pulled in too many different directions. Guess what? If your team's too big, if your team's too bloated, you're probably going to get pulled in a lot of different directions. And so that, that stood out to me.

Ken, did you see it almost could be its own top news. But did you see the uh. Andy Jassy is the CEO of Amazon. His corporate memo became public recently where he said there are no more pre meetings to plan for a meeting. So Amazon, I spent some time at Amazon. They actually have a great culture of meetings where you write a really thorough one sometimes seven page document. They know that no one's going to read the doc before the meeting. So you spend the first 15 to 30 minutes reading the doc and then you have the meeting and you try to make decisions whenever possible.

But even in Amazon, who's really thought through this meeting thing, they were having situations where there was a pre meeting to get ready for a meeting. And so kudos to Andy Jassy for, for trying to, to kill that. But you know, I think for our audience of change enablers who are mostly operations, IT&L and D folks, I think the two stats that jump out that are really within our control as change enablers are people not being able to find the information they need to do their job. And then too many meetings. In fact, you know, if you talk to some of our customers, the operations managers we work with will tell you that they're in constant meetings just to hold somebody's hand through a process they've already explained a million times and answer the same question over and over again. So I suspect those two things can be related. What did you think about some of their recommendations about how to cut down on meetings and make information more self service for employees?

Well, spoiler alert everyone. Atlassian's state of teams is phenomenal thought leadership that allows you to think about Atlassian's suite of products for your own business.

Yeah, of course they are the knowledge they are famous for Jira, a product that many companies use and not all employees of those companies love. And then of course Confluence, which is probably the second most popular knowledge base in the world to Microsoft SharePoint. So yeah, on one hand this might be self serving, on the other hand they know a lot about the topic.

Yeah, no, no, no, I know and look, we're, we're very proud to have Atlassian as an investor in Tango. So you know, that's my, that's my big caveat I think, you know, on the recommendations, I think you and I would agree about the stats that they conveyed around making information self serve where if you're able to do that, you're going to be 4.9x more effective. You're going to be 4.4x more likely to be productive. I don't even know what that means. You're, you're likely to be productive when you enter something regardless and then you're 4.4x more likely to be adaptable. So you know, those are the things that they touted that recommendation. I'll just take, I'll take one and then I'd love to hear your opinion on the other. But you know, they recommended replacing meetings with Async Video, which they just bought Loom for almost a billion dollars.

So that's a good recommendation. But what I would say with Async Video and we've, we've been through this before a little bit, it's not a one size fits all solution. If it's like, hey, you know what, we're not going to do this weekly update meeting where we just report out anymore. We're going to do a Loom update for everybody to consume on their own time. Hell yeah. That's a great use of Async video. But if it's a discussion where like we need to make a decision. So here everyone record your Loom video of like your perspective and then we'll throw them all in the channel and then everyone's going to watch them all.

And you know, you probably had to take some time to create. What I would challenge is like you're probably not replacing a ton of time. There's.

Well yeah, that's a terrible scenario for when to use, you know, video or Loom to replace a meeting. The other one is Loom is such a fantastic product. We use it at Tango. I use it every week myself. That a lot of times Loom video gets abused for things that it's not good for. One example is that it gets recorded to provide step by step instructions or do like procedural trainings. Because for the person who has to provide the how to guide or deliver the process explanation, it's so much easier just to record a quick five minute video than it is to properly lay out the step by step instructions with all the things that you Need. So when we get to the point where you're trying to show me how to do a 30 step process in our CRM or ERP with a loom video, that's not gonna gonna work for me.

It might be easier or it may feel more approachable upfront to be like, ah, let me just record my screen. But you're gonna pay for it later because guess what, people are gonna have a really hard time following your videos to follow that 30 step process.

So nobody wants to watch a seven minute video for a task that should take 20 seconds, right? Yeah. Now, of course the other thing, which again is necessary but can have mixed results if it's, if it's overused, is in order to make information more self serve, Atlassian in the report recommends leveraging AI to write more and better documentation. And again, this is a fantastic suggestion. A lot of people would call Tango a product that uses AI to make better documentation. So I love that suggestion. Although I do think there is a nuance here. I have worked at many companies that use Confluence for a knowledge base and I've been subject to many dense, wordy, difficult to read, and frankly sleepy knowledge base articles, unfortunately. And so I would hate if their customers populate, you know, more Confluence pages with more paragraphy AI documents.

Yeah, I agree with that. I actually saw a tweet. Do we call them tweets anymore? I don't know, Max. Yeah, I guess I saw a tweet recently that was like, here are all the ways to identify whether something was written with AI. It was actually pretty funny. It was like the Oxford comma, like very loyal use of the Oxford comma. So if you see that in your.

Knowledge base, I am a very loyal user of the Oxford comic. Ken.

Well, I mean, I've been wondering, maybe I'm a robot this whole. This whole time. Yeah, maybe I too big Oxford comma guy. One of my favorite Vampire Weekend songs is also Oxford comma. So maybe we're just both robots over here talking about change.

Yeah, it's one of the great things. Generative AI has many great use cases. Unfortunately, generative AI does not yet know all of your specific custom business processes and procedures. So while it generically understands everything you could possibly do with internal systems, it doesn't know how your company prefers to use internal systems to drive all your business processes. And so that's why while when it comes to how we think documentation should work, we use AI, but we use it to get the information out of the head of the change enabler or the subject Matter expert. We don't want AI out there. AI out there just writing a bunch of documentation.

Yeah, well, speaking of AI, there was an announcement that I saw recently in our space and I know on past episodes, you know, we talked a little bit about WalkMe and the acquisition by SAP. What fix? Another competitor in the DAPP space announced their series E fundraising round to a tune of $125 million. There was a lot of mention of AI in this announcement, but there's other stuff that we're going to cover as well. I think this is. We're just at a really interesting time for digital adoption platforms between WalkMe and what Fix. A lot of quotes in this article about how critical these are going to become over time. Um, you know, for me my immediate reaction was like wow, holy cow. Like the things that we're hearing from our customers around driving roi, you know, acknowledging that users are still a very key part of the process, like those two pieces for me is like wow.

Even hearing that now we're seeing it in some of this market validation. So I know you saw this one too. Any initial reactions?

Yeah, digital adoption platforms are hot right now and I think it has a lot to do with what we saw in the State of Teams report from Atlassian. People realize that employees need more self service access to information and yet not everybody agrees with Atlassian that the solution is AI, written documentation and more videos. I think the reason DAP is hot right now what Fix now raises around valuing them at a billion dollars. Dapps are hot because there's a better way to give self service access to information to employees instead of having to go leave the application you're working on and go into the learning management system to see a video or go in the knowledge base to see an article written by AI. Dapps give just the right amount of information right on the screen at the exact moment you need it. And so DAPPS are hot because some believe it's a much better way to drive self service. Certainly we believe that at Tango. So I think it's pretty cool to see and you know, says a lot about the DAP market.

Yeah, one thing that was interesting about their announcement and we'll link this to the show notes, this is directly from what Fix this blog, but they brought in a lot of outside perspectives to sort of lend credibility. I mean raka, we've talked about this like DAPPS is not a category that everybody knows about. It's for the most forward thinking organizations who are trying to maximize ROI of their internal tech stack and so they brought in perspectives from idc, Warburg Pincus, who participated in the round, Accenture, which I think is one of their strategic partners, to really highlight why these are critical. I think the things that stood out to me, I mentioned roi. IDC talked about, you know, in quotes, maximizing software roi, Warburg Pincus talked about in quotes, empowering users to fully leverage software functionalities and enhance productivity. Accenture talked about in quotes, our clients better leveraging both their existing and new technology investments. And I think what's interesting at this moment in time in this market is you have a lot of companies that are reevaluating all their investments, whether it's headcount software and trying to drive efficiency in a way that responds to what their market is requiring of them. And so this is why, you know, IDC, that same same person that was quoted, predicts that 80% of the global top 1,000 organizations are going to rely on Dapps over time.

So I think that was really powerful.

Yeah, I was actually kind of blown away by that stat because as you say, we talk to customers every day and we find that actually not everybody, even, even change enablers, right? Even people in IT and operations and L and D, whose core job is to help users be more productive, drive adoption of processes and systems. Even a lot of them haven't heard of WalkMe and WhatFix and Tango and they aren't familiar with the digital adoption category. And so I'm trying to reconcile how, you know, gartner says that 70 or 80% of companies are going to be using a digital adoption platform by 2025, and the fact that not only are a lot of the people we talk to not aware of dapps, but dapps have a lot of great benefits and also kind of a, some of them have a, have a fatal flaw. Digital adoption platforms are incredible for the employee experience of discovering information in the flow of work and being able to just stay in that app I'm working on and get answers in real time. Where they've historically been really tough is actually on the change enabler who needs to build out the tool tips and the step by step flows and all of the content that's valuable. And so we think that's, that is going to need to change in order for more companies to be able to successfully adopt dapps. In order to get software roi, they're going to need to be a lot easier to use. And so actually that leads to the third bit of top news we were going to share, which is that we've Been hearing from a lot of customers that they like to adopt, adapt, but they need something that's a little easier for them.

And so I think you have an announcement to make related to that, Ken.

Yeah, so I'm super excited to announce on Halloween, October 31st, we are going to be launching Nuggets. So what are nuggets besides a. A very cute feature name? Nuggets are like post it notes for all of your internal business applications. And so what does that mean? What's that going to allow us to do? Users of Tango will be able to use Nuggets for unstructured text links to your knowledge base. Tango workflow is right there on the page where you can start your guide me experience. It's going to be a super powerful feature. This is something that our engineering team has been, has been working hard on. It allows us to, you know, continue to further our digital adoption platform offerings.

And it's going to be super, super easy. And you know, that that actually leads me to kind of the question I have for you, Rocco. Rocco, you're like our internal nuggets guru. And you know, for folks that are familiar with dapps, they might go, oh, well, you know, other digital adoption platforms actually have some version of this. Maybe they call it a tool tip, maybe they call it a bubble. What makes nuggets different? Why should I care about this versus saying, oh, that's just, that's just feature parody with Walkme and Whatfix.

Yeah, Ken, that's exactly right. Tool tips are a core feature of digital adoption platforms like WalkMe and WhatFix. Nuggets are different though, in the sense that you can create them and pin them to your business applications in literally a few seconds with just a couple of clicks. So compare that to the way that you would create a tooltip in another DApp platform. You have to open up a proprietary flow builder system. A lot of times the vendors call them no code or low code flow builders. And yet actually, if you ask a walkme or what fix customer, there is a lot of code like jQuery, HTML and CSS that you actually need to learn in order to do almost anything, including create a simple tool tip and what these supposed no code flow builders and other dapps end up looking like. Ken, have you ever watched a detective show where all the detectives are in the squad room and they're looking at the white chalkboard and they've got all the suspects and the locations and there's different dots with yarn? That's literally what your flow builder looks like.

In other dapps. And so it gets really complicated. It makes it really difficult to create content. It means it requires a lot of specialized training. WhatFix, for example, their customers have told us that you have to go through a four hour training before you're allowed to get access to the system as an administrator because that's they have a lot of features, but that's how complicated it is to create content in other dapps. And so we felt like that was one of the things that was holding back more organizations from rolling out a digital adoption platform, particularly organizations with less than 10,000 employees. Right. If you're Matthew from Nestle and you can afford to lead an entire dedicated team for your digital adoption platform, then that might be a possibility for you.

But the vast majority of the customers we talk to can't afford to dedicate an entire team and don't have time to train up that entire team or hire experts from walkme or what fix to build all their DAPP content for them. So with nuggets, we wanted you to be able to have almost anybody in your organization create tool tips with just a few clicks without having to take a four hour training, without having to look at a Beautiful mind board, and without having to learn. Jerry Query.

Love it. Yeah, we were actually talking to a customer maybe two weeks ago where they said, oh yeah, I'm really familiar with those tools, but I think you need like a PhD in coding to use them. So I'm kind of waiting. We had this evolution from no code that was really hot and then it was like, well it's low code. And I'm really waiting for the next evolution which is going to be like less code because there's still lots of code coming back to nuggets. You know, maybe talk us through what are the main use cases for nuggets, like why, why should this matter? Why is this new method of distributing knowledge so valuable?

Yeah, so even though nuggets technically are being launched on Halloween 2024, we have quite a few customers already using them and there's a few use cases that we're seeing over and over again are really, really valuable for these nuggets. So the first one is almost every organization does have a knowledge base, whether it's SharePoint, Confluence, Notion, and most organizations have invested a lot of time in trying to get standard operating procedures, training, videos, whatever the content they already have. And yet what we hear from a lot of change enablers is that they spent all that time on that content, but it's difficult to find because it's buried in the knowledge base and therefore nobody uses it. So the first amazing way to use nuggets is just take all the content you already have and pin it right to the exact screen, button or page in your business application where people can use it. So you'll see an exponential increase in usage of the content that you already have. Another really cool use case we see is the ability to pin quick tips and suggestions. We call this use case high stakes data entry. Think about your CRM or your ordering system or your customer support system.

Yeah, there may actually be a lot of different undifferentiated clicks in there, but every once in a while your employee will come across a field where they have to get that information entered perfectly or they have to select the exact right thing from the dropdown. And if they don't, chaos happens downstream. If it's a sales system, it can screw up order fulfillment, it could screw up billing, it can screw up supply chain and reordering equipment. And so we're seeing a lot of people pin nuggets right on those critical fields to help employees make sure they don't, they don't make mistakes. Another cool thing to use nuggets for is announcements. So you can, for people who miss a training meeting or weren't paying attention in the meeting, or if you just want to cut down on that meeting altogether, you can take your link to your zoom recording or your loom video and you can stick a link to it right in the nugget and put it right on the part of the software that it's, that it's pertaining to. So people can get that information the moment they need it. And then of course, obviously, you know, we're lucky to have thousands of customers who have documented millions of processes in Tango.

And people really love one of our features called Guide Me where it'll just take over the screen of your employees and guide them through a process with a screen overlay, step by step. And now you can take those Tango Guide Me workflows and pin them right on the screen. So those are a few of the use cases that we're seeing so far for nuggets.

I love it. I equate it to, it's bowling with, with bumpers. You know, you're going to hit some pins, you're going to get there. We're going to help you, we're going to, we're going to stop you from making mistakes.

I love that.

I know a lot of this has been, you know, very sort of high level value proposition, but I Also know that you, Rocco, you love those real life examples. Maybe give us one or two real life examples of how we've seen this already with a few of our customers.

Yeah. So one amazing scenario earlier I mentioned high stakes data entry. Maybe the most high stakes data entry process that organization can have is their Quote to Cash process. If you're not familiar with Quote to Cash, it's basically a functionality most of the time in your CRM where your sales reps can put in all the information they need to send a quote to a customer. The customer can agree to the quote and sign the contract. And then that triggers a bunch of other activities for other departments in your organization. Once a customer assigned, like your fulfillment team, your customer service team, your product management team. And so Quote to Cash is a super high stakes business process that directly affects your revenue and involves many teams.

And so we heard from a customer named Jasco. They're a manufacturing company with a couple thousand employees. We heard from them that despite an incredible amount of training and meetings and enablement, their sales reps were still often making mistakes in filling out forms in their ordering forms that were leading to days of delays with products getting fulfilled and shipped, a lot of rework and unnecessary meetings by the operation team to fix the mistake. And everybody was getting frustrated. Customers, sales reps, it was causing a lot of problems. And the main thing was they weren't able to book their revenue as quickly as they could. And so what they're doing is they're creating Tango nuggets and pinning them right on these key fields in their ordering processes with all the information they need. In some cases, they're pinning Tango Guide Me workflows to guide employees through the steps of the order form.

They're also taking quick tips and links to their knowledge base and pinning them right to the fields that are the most critical, that have the most mistakes. In their example, they have really complicated SKUs and so sales reps for filling in SKUs wrong with Nuggets, they can pin all the exact formatting information for all their SKUs right to that field. And for them to cut down on orders that were getting submitted incorrectly by 90% and it sped up their average fulfillment time by two days. So that's a great example of how taking knowledge that people need and putting it right on the exact spot where they need it so it's there the moment they need it can actually solve a pretty big business problem.

I love that. Yeah, it's going to be really powerful. I think this comes back to an early principle around product that that we set in the earliest days of Tango, which was always get as close to the user as humanly possible. At one point that was a Chrome extension, and allowing someone to just access it right in the browser. Nuggets takes it even a step further beyond what we imagined in the beginning. So I'm super excited for this launch, excited for everyone listening to try it, give us feedback. But I think this is going to measurably change the game for a lot of organizations using Tango.

Yeah, Ken, There was a moment for me where we got an email from a customer and they said guide me is the most amazing feature. The hardest part is finding the guide me workflow I need when I need it. Nuggets solves that.

Awesome. That's a quote to end that section on if I've ever heard one. We're going to wrap today with the OPS Hotline. We love the OPS Hotline. These are people like you, listening, writing in, asking questions of us, listening to other forms of our content. I think someone actually in this one referenced an episode that we did with Joey Papanya from Cox. He talked a lot about the forgetting curve. Joey's a.

An L and D leader. And so someone wrote in and said the things Joey from Cox said about the forgetting curve really resonated with me. Everyone here complains about trainings. They turn their video off, they multitask, they ignore me, and then what happens? We emerge from the training and I'm asking or I'm answering the same questions that people ask over and over that were that were addressed in the training. I want to do something different. I'm not sure how am I just going to continue these training sessions now and into the future? What suggestions do you have? So, Rocco, I know, I know you have some thoughts on this one. I have some thoughts too, but I'll let you start.

Well, yeah, first of all, let's remind everyone what the forgetting curve is if they missed that episode with Joey. Paraphrasing it says that if you hold a meeting and try to explain any concept and work to somebody with audio and PowerPoint slides, most people are going to forget 70% of the information within 24 hours and they're going to forget 90% of the information within seven days. So basically, your training meetings that you rely on to get across critical information about business processes, like your quote to cash process, that have a direct effect on revenue, they're not working. People are forgetting all the information. And then of course, there's consequences on that for you if you're in operations or, or enablement. Joey calls it Groundhog Day. He gets the same questions every day. So it affects everybody and kills productivity.

I love what this listener is saying. I don't. So I'm bought in. But what do you mean? I'm just supposed to tell my boss that I'm not doing any more trainings? I get it. That's tough. I think the first thing I would say to that is that, ask your boss and ask the people that don't want to, you know, attend your trainings. Like, is it even working? Do you have perfect adoption in your critical business processes and do you make no mistakes and you get no complaints? If so, maybe you don't need to consider a switch from traditional training to real time enablement. But the fact that people complain, the fact that they are making mistakes, and the fact that, you know you're not getting adoption because you're getting the same questions over and over again might mean it's time to talk to your boss about a change.

So what do you think though, about kind of doing this difficult organizational transition from traditional training to what we call real time enablement? Ken, what would you suggest?

To me, I think any sort of change, I think is met with apprehension. But I think this level of change, this type of change is actually one that you'll be very grateful that you underwent. I want to bring this, this one actually back to what we talked about early on with the Atlassian state of teams. That stat that you highlighted, which I think is so critical, 55% of people don't even know where to find the information. And so couple that with the forgetting curve that you talked about. You've got traditional training, people forget 70% of it. For the 70% they forget, then 55% of those people can't actually find the info. And so I would encourage people to really think about, okay, I'm putting in a lot of effort to these trainings.

There's a little bit of like, do I want to undo that? Maybe a sunk cost fallacy. But I really encourage you to ask the question of like, are these being as effective as possible? And then when it comes to real time enablement, you're trying to address some of those things head on. It's not a one shot deal. There's no forgetting curve. These things are omnipresent within your tools, within your systems, within your organization. And then in terms of not being able to find stuff when it comes to real time enablement, it's ideally meeting you in the flow of work. And so I Understand the apprehension. I understand that like now you're going to have to go in, you're going to have to document your processes, you're going to have to set things up, likely with a digital adoption platform that meets your needs to meet people in the flow of work.

But you're offering a solution that is infinitely more effective than what you were doing before. And it's okay that you were doing that before. Many organizations are used to that. Many organizations are used to saying, yeah, we'll do a training, great, check the box. Everyone did the training, they should be able to do it. The reality is like, they probably can't. So there'll be some effort involved, but I think the long term outcomes will be welcome.

Yeah, exactly. I think this is why there's a huge uptick in adoption of digital adoption platforms being predicted by Gartner and other industry analysts. Because instead of traditional training where we give employees the information days, weeks or months before they can ever use it and expect them to memorize it, digital adoption platforms drive real time enablement, which says don't even ask them to memorize these hundreds of processes that aren't particularly important. Give them the information the moment they need it, guide them through the process and hold their hand through the process so they barely even need to use their brain. That's what features like Guide Me do. Put the information in the exact spot they need it when they need it. That's what features like nuggets do. And not only then do we circumvent the forgetting curve because we're not asking employees to memorize most of these processes.

But now they can use that same brain bandwidth on other, more important, more strategic things. And the advice I would give the listener too. One of the most important things about dapps, including Tango and what Fix and Walk Me is, they give you analytics that show you process adoption down to the software process and individual level so you can actually prove if it's working. And you. And for example, in Tango, you can literally see where people are falling off for a particular process, which people are in your, which departments and people are completing processes or getting stuck. So that helps when you have to have that conversation with your boss about why you're shortening the training meetings or eliminating them altogether because you can use those analytics to prove that real time enablement is actually driving more process adoption than your traditional training.

Yeah. And look, if your boss is worried about those training meetings going away, keep the meetings instead of treating it as a fire hose of information for folks to learn what, how to do things and learn all the information that they need in that one setting. Use the training meetings to help people be resourceful, help them understand the tools to such that they can like access the information. You know, this sort of idea of self service. Atlassian said that too. Self service information, you're going to be five times more effective. So use those meetings to do that. If someone's given you a hard time about taking them off the calendar.

Yeah, great call.

So with that, that wraps up our fourth edition of the State of Change Enablement. I want to thank Rocco for for joining me again for a fourth time and invite the audience just Nuggets are live. Nuggets and Nuggets are live. I was just going to invite the audience to jump into Tango, try out Nuggets, message us about about getting a demo. It's really an incredible feature and I'm excited to showcase the hard work of our engineering and product teams.

Great talk, Ken. Thanks. Thanks for listening to this episode of Change Enablers, a podcast by Tango. If you like what you heard, share with a comment or leave us a review. And don't forget to subscribe for more episodes. See you next time.